Forum Activity for @Clay

David:

You are asking us to do the impossible because we don't have enough information to answer your questions. Without knowing how much chocolate you need to make, making a recommendation - any recommendation - is not helpful to you.

That said, to the best of my knowledge, there are no small ball mills at the prices you say you need, except maybe for machines I would not trust to arrive broken, break down immediately, or be made with non-food-safe materials. Search on Alibaba to see what I mean.

Daniel, Peter:

Can we please move the conversation about the universal to another thread? I don't want to take over David's thread.

:: Clay

That's news to me. The manufacturing company's head mechanic worked on it last year and told me there would always be some pressure applied.

There are airbrushes specifically designed to spray colours. A good  source for information about them is Chef Rubber (www.chefrubber.com).

You use these to spray colored cocoa butter, which is quite fluid.

Generally, if you want to spray chocolate you would use a spray gun made for paint (e.g., Wagner Power Painter), or you can purchase a spray gun specifically made for chocolate (e.g., Krebs).

Daniel,

If your Macintyre is continually grinding you have a mechanical problem, you need to get a mechanic to look at it. Any correctly functioning Universal will not continue grinding once released from tension. 

Hi guys,

I'm an amateur who recently found his passion in chocolate making.

I've been successful at melting chocolate and making pralines, but now I would like to know how can I spray colour into the pralines... I really love that effect.

Is there an airbrush specifically designed for spraying colours? Should I mix the colour only with coccoa butter or can I also use chocolate?

Thanks.

Hi Lauren,

Welcome and lots of success on your business!

You´re right, that would be the correct order to do this kind of stuff.

The thing is that my employer just gave me names and prices, for example:

Ball Mill                                12.000 $

Laboratory Ball Mill                 1.100$

And i already know that a laboratory ball mill could cost as much as a "commercial" one with 3 to 4 times the capacity.

The same situation goes for a roaster, roll refiner, butter press and other equipment that i don´t even recognize. Just to mention one, a "potentiometer". And no one in this institution can give me any info about what a potentiometer means, because the guy who ordered that stuff, with those names and prices, isn´t working there anymore.

So i´m taking a long shot with you, to see if there is a remote possibility that someone could know, where to get a new Laboratory Ball Mill (or any ball mill) for that price.

Interested in this machine if still available. Please email me at ae3139904@gmail.com Thx

For those who are DIY'ers of the group - you might consider getting some carbon fiber tape, and a few wires and a thermostat and a battery you can make your own controllable heat tape that you can then custom fit around your bowls.  Sure there's heat tracing wire already out there, but it's thicker and, well, if you just bought it - then you're not the DIY type 8-)

I am in Sao Paulo, humidity is 80%, after a few hours with a dehumidifier I can get to 60% woohoo, I am using the small premiers for now. I was afraid that the humidity was causing my 70-80% bars to be too viscous and thought that roasting nibs, instead of cacao, would help me maintain more butter in the nibs. I will weight before and after roasting, then after proofing and see how this changes things. Thanks everyone. 

Thanks for the comments on my avatar. A friend of mine who is a macaron baker (ex- art director) in Amsterdam did it for me.

What does reasonably–priced mean to you? What you think is expensive might be cheap to someone else. It's important to consider where your market is - you can charge more in most big cities than in small towns so cost of chocolate is one thing to be factored in. Right now there are too many unknowns.

In what quantities do you want to buy? It may be that prices are high because you are buying in small quantities. As for a basis for comparison, take a look at the prices for couverture on Chocosphere.com and on Amazon.com. You should to that before you come back with more questions.

Clay -

Im in love with your avatar haha.

I honestly have no idea what brand of chocolate I want to use. Something....not belgian? haha Maybe the question should've been "what's your favorite non-belgian, reasonably priced (on a start-up budget) chocolate"? Obviously, its opinion and what one person likes, I might not like, it just gives me something to think about and or research....ya dig?? hhahaa

As for chocoley, their website says 'Chocoley is crafted in the finest belgian traditon and proudly made in America". I don't know, the way they talk about their chocolate makes it sound like they made it.'

PS- do you know what I mean when I talk about that 'taste' I dont like in  belgian chocolate?  It's almost like an anise flavor....which I normally don't mind, I'll tear up a bag of black liccorice..but get it out of my chocolate lol

Lauren -

There are two different issues at play here:

1. What chocolate you want to use.
2. What company you are going to buy the chocolate from.

For example, you might purchase Guittard directly (a pallet at a time) or in smaller amounts through a company like Ciao Imports or Sysco.

If you were interested in using Felchlin you'd be in touch with Swiss Chalet Fine Foods out of Miami who would connect you with a local rep.

Chocosphere is a source for many different brands of chocolate for tasting and testing.

I would focus first on what chocolate brand(s) you want to use and then figure out the best supplier, which includes factors such as shipping and availability (do they always have what you want in stock).

PS. - Chocoley probably does not "make Belgian chocolate." What they do most likely is contract with a manufacturer that is associated with Belgium who supplies them product on a private-label basis. It could be Barry-Callebaut (which is really a Swiss company, now), but the product could be manufactured in Belgium - or in Vermont or Canada.

Not sure if this is the right place to post this question, so feel free to move it if necessary! 

I fully intend on starting a small confectionery business, and I'm looking for a good place to get the chocolate for said business.

I always used Chocoley for their compound coatings, because they were seriously, the best compound chocolate I ever put in my mouth But they also do couverture chocolate. I've already established a 'wholesale' relationship with Chocoley (www.chocoley.com)....air quotes around wholesale because even with the wholesale discount, its still pretty expensive. Plus they make belgian chocolate - and for milk chocolate....I'm really not a fan. Theres a taste in belgian chocolate I cant put my finger on, but (at least for me) it ruins  the taste of a good chocolate.

So I'm looking for a good chocolate supplier that I could use to supply the chocolate for my eventual business...what is your favorite bulk chocolate supplier?

Thank you,thank you!

I found this review on Amazon which confirms some of my thoughts:

I ordered this bowl to help me temper chocolate, it didn't.

Firstly if you think the heating element runs up the sides of the bowl your wrong, it gets heated by the very very bottom of the bowl, um, so if you were to say place 2 pounds of chocolate in it... maybe the very bottom melts... the rest just sits there, way faster to just place in microwave.

You will have the same problem once you get your choclate into temper the "range" you get doesnt allow you to stay between say 87 and 92 (by 93 your out of temper).

If you take a thermal gun and take readings up the sides of the bowl (even a mere inch off the bottom) the temperature drops off so quickly...

Ridiculous waste off money, sad because I had high hopes...

They need to redesign this thing...

Lauren:

I think this is a very interesting product but two of the primary concerns I had about it were temperature range and accuracy. According to Kitchen Aid:

Precision Temperature Technology (?)

Select any temperature from 70 to 220 degrees F (21 to 104 degrees C) in two degree increments.

So the precision is not all that precise ... when it comes to working with chocolate. I can see how it would be great for a home kitchen where tempering chocolate is an occasional thing, but maybe not so much for the professional kitchen. My guess is that it's actually ± 1C, which is 1.9F.

That said, as Brad suggests ... if I already have the right model of Kitchen Aid mixer getting one of these and playing with it is probably worth the investment and I can see it as fast and efficient chocolate melter in conjunction with a scraper blade.

Lauren -

Welcome to TheChocolateLife!

David -

Sebastian is right, of course. Without knowing what you want to produce and how much you need to make in any given time it's very difficult to know where to direct you.

David - i'd encourage you to identify what's important for your equipment, and folks can better help direct you.  IE - how much do you want to make, and with what frequency?  Will it be used every day?  What particle sizes ranges are relevant?  What type of temperature control do you want, and why?  

Once it's understood what you want to do with it, and how it will be used, you're likely to get better information.

Welcome!  It's a good place to hang your hat and learn 8)

Hi Lauren;

Your post got me curious, and I went online to check it out.

Interesting concept for sure! Please keep everyone posted.

At the very least, it would be great for proofing dough for bread at home!  I just might have to order one myself.

Cheers

Brad

Has anyone invested in one of these?

There aren't many reviews out there, and 99% of questions/reviews I HAVE seen for it, haven't been in regards to tempering chocolate - but for all the other uses for the mixing bowl (proofing bread dough etc). So I'm curious to see if anyone has used it before and your thoughts on it.

I did go ahead and order one anyways because, its a MUCH easier way to temper chocolate vs t abliering and takes all the arm cramps out of seeding   Not to mention, cheaper than an actual tempering machine. I've had it about 2 weeks now and I do have a few questions about it, so if anyone has one and can share experiences that'd be great!

Thanks in advance!!

-Lauren

Hi!

Im Lauren, 29, from the East Coast US and I am a confectioner....of sorts

I'm currently a student at Ecole Chocolat, enrolled in the Professional Chocolatier Program and the Busuness Plan Program. I've been using confectoners coating for forever, but once I decided I wanted to make a business of it, I figured the best way to start a chocolate dipped confections business, was to learn how to use real   chocolate.

Thus far, the course has been very valuable to me...sure, I could've read books and watched videos and learned to temper chocolate without dropping $1200.00 to take the course, but in additon to learning to temper, i've learned much about the history and production, as well as the science of chocolate. I may have even found myself a business partner, which is fantastic . 

I'm super happy to have found TheChocolateLife and look forward to gaining knowledge, and learning from the active members of the site!

Thanks Daniel. Unfortunately it´s a government institution which requires the equipment and they are not allowed to buy second hand machinery. I´m checking FBM right now.

Correct, even on the lowest tension setting there is still some grinding going on. I've had one batch over-refine at that setting, producing a pasty chocolate with a max particle size around 12 microns.

As soon as I can afford to I will separate out grinding from refining.

Daniel;

The small universals I use in my lab allow me to dial the tension of the blades right back to the point where they don't even touch the side of the machine.  In that case it would still be conching.  Doesn't yours do that?

Cheers

Brad

David: that equipment looks like a great deal. It might be possible to find some used for cheaper.

I have a universal and sometimes wish I could keep conching without grinding, so have to agree that if you have the budget to buy separate equipment it's the way to go. You might also consider FBM's Kleego.

David;

You were disengenuous, so I took a page from your book.

"...The problem is that someone who does not have a clue about that, already had some budget assigned to each equipment. My job is to find the specific piece of equipment ....."

I guess by your own account of how you felt you were treated by me, you insulted your employer too eh?  

If you want GOOD advice, then be humble.  Admit to knowing nothing, even if you know more than nothing.  ...and when you DO get advice.  Accept it graciously, then do the substantiation ON YOUR OWN.  Don't ask the person giving the advice to prove themselves.  Refuting a person's advice, and then qualifiying it with "correct me if I'm wrong." is simply a polite way of saying "I don't believe you. Prove to me what you say."  Stated in either context, I consider it rude.

In Canada we have an old saying:  "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth."

Brad.

Oh... and to keep on topic, I STILL recommend that you find, qualify, and hire someone who DOES have a clue.  That should be your task.

De nada.  Happy Easter folks.

Thanks, Sebastian!

Brad, it is nice of you to take time to help others. "you haven't got a clue on how to make chocolate" might be factual but it was not necessary and came off as insulting.

Daniel - those look completely fine to me. I'm going with #1 above - just polysaccharide reside - i don't see any visual indicators of other defects from that photo. 

David, my reply WAS nice.

You asked for advice. I took some time out of my busy day and gave you very valuable advice - advice that is backed up by real-world experience. I even gave you an example.

I didn't have to say anything. In fact I could have remained silent like the thousands of other people on this forum who currently are silent on this topic.

Yet I decided to help YOU.  And whether you like it or not it is good advice.

I didn't call you names or attack you personally or insult your mother. I simply stated fact.

As a good and proper Canadian I should at this point in time I apologize to you because you are offended. After all up here we apologize to people for everything.

...but I am not going to.

Go buy that conch.  It's a great buy, and it's shiny!

Sebastian: I had to shell 47 beans to get 20 with "rust", so about 40%. Attached is a photo of 21 beans, one that looked diseased (but had no rust colour), and the 20 that all otherwise seem fine.

 IMG_6279.JPG.jpg - 2MB

Clay: I bought them raw. Exterior rust appearance isn't a perfect indicator - some that looked fine had rust, others that didn't had some inside.

Greg - you want 8 guage stainless wire - aka 0.05mm (some people are using 13 guage as well) - attaching a discussion here.

https://forums.egullet.org/topic/61605-guitar-cutter-sourcing-using-maintaining/?page=1

Are the bolts the same on both ends of the wires?

Clay is right - if you can find a half size speed rack or a stainless table with speed rack shelving under it - it will make a fine holder for your guitar.

I use guitar sheets which are flexible plastic instead of acetate or silicone.

Brad, I don´t know if i got lost in the translation, but i'm feeling really insulted by your response.

I try to be polite in my limited english but if i ever insulted anyone, please let me know, i´m not aiming for that.

If you can´t say things nicely, please don´t.

Thank you!

David;

From your post above and your "theory" with respect to particle reduction based on something you might have read in a book somewhere, it sounds to me like you haven't got a clue on how to make chocolate.  At the very least, you shouldn't be helping ANYBODY set up a state of the art chocolate lab.

What you SHOULD be doing is trying to source an accomplished professional who DOES know what he/she's doing, and has a pedigree to prove it, then contracting his/her services to compose a report on the equipment needed given the vision of the corporation and budget the organization is restricted to.   That professional will know the in's and outs of pretty much all of the equipment needed for each task in the chocolate making process, and will make recommendations in their final report.  They will probably even provide names and phone numbers so accounting can place the orders.

Clay can do this.

I can do this.

This is the recommendation you should take back to the institution you are working for.  While your final report might cost you several thousand dollars and it may seem like a set back at first, one simple change in the decision to buy one piece of equipment over the other can potentially save your organization 10's of thousands of dollars.

As hard as this is to read, a professional's advice is usually worth the money spent.

I'll give you an example that just happened to me last week:

Last week I spent $7,000 on an engineering report for the mezzanine above the work area of my factory lab.  Ouch.  That stung.  It's a good thing I did though.  The engineer found significant deficiencies which could have shut the whole project down at inspection time, or even worse - killed someone when the loaded storage area collapsed on my lab.

I hope this advice helps you go down the right path.  Asking random strangers for opinions  on a specific piece of equipment because it "looks good" while helping build a "state of the art" chocolate lab is not the right path.

Case in point:  Fly to Calgary, and pay me $6,000 euro's to SHOW you why you don't need a small useless conche worth $12,000 euro's.  Your flight and my fee combined will save you $4,000 euros!  We all win!

Cheers

Brad

Hi Clay

I don´t think a universal conche could give as much process control as a separate refining / conching process for a lab, please correct me if i´m wrong. This one is expensive but it would be my choice. 

http://www.caotech.com/products/cwc-5/

Brad,

Thanks for your offering, is it possible to chat via skype? i´m suffering trying to make equipments fit what they gave me, i have a lot of questions.

I have a general question, i think i´ve read in The Science of Chocolate (Beckett) that it is generally better to reduce particle size gradualy in order to avoid a particle distribution with many "coarse" and "over refined" pieces, and so, i was convinced that ball mills should be fed with "liquid" cocoa liquor, but i´ve seen lately a lot of ball mills being fed by cocoa nibs directly with no replacement of the grinding media which makes me think that particle distribution can´t be the best in that process. Could that be truth? has anyone fed nibs directly to a ball mill?

It's one of two things.  It's either remants of the polysaccharide material that holds the shell to the nib, or it's mold.  It's probabaly the first one, but do me a favor.

Attempt to quantify how many of the rusty beans you see (edit: i mean, give me a rough % - is it 5% of the total bean?  30% etc), and then take 20 of them, break them in half, and take a photo of what you see inside and repost that?